Saturday, March 15, 2008

Tel Aviv, Germany

First, for those who are not yet aware of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, please read the brief history here.

For the freaks who are already aware of the conflict, please deign continuing your reading. First Read this conversation I had with Mr, W. (Who is actually completing a MA in International relations of the Middle East at the Durham University, England. He also studied Philosophy, religion in the University of Toronto.) on February 4th of this year.

Angie says (8:08 AM):

Good morning!

W.'. says (8:09 AM):

hi there

W.'. says (8:09 AM):

you are awake early

Angie says (8:09 AM):

ca va?

Angie says (8:09 AM):

yeah, i need to get back in a normal schedule!

Angie says (8:10 AM):

damn it's been 2 weeks i haven't woke up before 10 am

Angie says (8:10 AM):

so what's going on over there?

W.'. says (8:10 AM):

there was a bomb today

W.'. says (8:10 AM):

first one in years

W.'. says (8:10 AM):

everyone is stressed out

Angie says (8:10 AM):

:\

Angie says (8:10 AM):

you ok?

W.'. says (8:10 AM):

its a long way from where I am

Angie says (8:11 AM):

ok

W.'. says (8:11 AM):

but everyone has just started feeling a lot less safe

Angie says (8:11 AM):

shit!

Angie says (8:11 AM):

be careful dear!

W.'. says (8:12 AM):

Its fine, its just psychological

W.'. says (8:12 AM):

but its so sad to see it happen again

Angie says (8:12 AM):

well... yeah!

W.'. says (8:15 AM):

I just thought we were over it

Angie says (8:15 AM):

Well i guess if it has to happen there is no way you could know

W.'. says (8:17 AM):

It really has not happened very often

W.'. says (8:17 AM):

twice in 3 years now

W.'. says (8:17 AM):

and only one person died

W.'. says (8:17 AM):

gone are the days when they would go off every day and kill 30 40 people

Angie says (8:18 AM):

even tho, the main purpose of bombs is to terrorize and create an atmosphere of stress and tention

W.'. says (8:18 AM):

exactly

W.'. says (8:19 AM):

and there is enough tension in Israel as it is

Angie says (8:19 AM):

not necesarly to kill people

Angie says (8:19 AM):

yeah, obviously

W.'. says (8:24 AM):

they like to kill people also

W.'. says (8:24 AM):

this is why they cover themselves in rat poisen covered nails

Angie says (8:24 AM):

oh! ho! ok i change subject here, but I think i will need to discredit Haper's government again!

Angie says (8:24 AM):

they do that?

W.'. says (8:24 AM):

why whats up now

W.'. says (8:25 AM):

yep

W.'. says (8:25 AM):

and then they go to childrens parties

Angie says (8:25 AM):

new security certificates

W.'. says (8:25 AM):

and these kids have rate poisden covered nails in their bains

W.'. says (8:25 AM):

nice huh

Angie says (8:25 AM):

oh god!

W.'. says (8:26 AM):

my ex is still pulling nails out of her leg 6 years later

W.'. says (8:26 AM):

go figure - these are the people we are dealing with

W.'. says (8:26 AM):

what can we do

Angie says (8:27 AM):

ah!

Angie says (8:28 AM):

human beings can be sadistic !

Angie says (8:28 AM):

it's scary!

W.'. says (8:29 AM):

the thing is we stop them doing all this, if we didnt stop them they really would start killing every single person

Angie says (8:29 AM):

i wouldn't be surprised anyway

W.'. says (8:30 AM):

hey Quebec sponsored terrorism at one stage

Angie says (8:30 AM):

as a person who is in this conflict everyday, do you think there is hope?

W.'. says (8:30 AM):

build a big wall, that stops the killing

W.'. says (8:30 AM):

this is the best you can do

Angie says (8:31 AM):

Yeah, we sponsored terrorism, we elected Mario Dumont as the Opposition government!

W.'. says (8:32 AM):

lol this is where I dont know enough about canadian politics

Angie says (8:33 AM):

that guy is a right-winged crazy terrorist castrating democracy

W.'. says (8:33 AM):

ah I like those types

W.'. says (8:33 AM):

haha

Angie says (8:33 AM):

sure...

Angie says (8:35 AM):

heh !

W.'. says (8:35 AM):

so why do you hate harper then, go on tell me

Angie says (8:36 AM):

well! Ask Jack Layton knows why The Untakens hate Harper and his government!

W.'. says (8:37 AM):

arrghh noooo not NDP

W.'. says (8:37 AM):

haha

Angie says (8:37 AM):

we do share some point of view with Mr Layton

W.'. says (8:38 AM):

lol get your wife from a cataloug also?

W.'. says (8:38 AM):

Im sorry thats evil ..
Angie says (8:39 AM):

Question: did the guy got his wife in a catalogue or is it propaganda?

W.'. says (8:41 AM):

Its a bad joke, his wife is a chinese woman who can barely speak english

W.'. says (8:42 AM):

yet she is a Toronto MP

Angie says (8:42 AM):

Propaganda... yeah...

W.'. says (8:43 AM):

although I generally dont like leftwing parties

W.'. says (8:43 AM):

as they are so unrealistic

W.'. says (8:43 AM):

and overly idealistic

W.'. says (8:43 AM):

and tend to ruin economies

Angie says (8:43 AM):

and building walls is realistic, you think?

Angie says (8:44 AM):

i have another stand point on the subject

W.'. says (8:46 AM):

I know

W.'. says (8:46 AM):

when you spend all the time in the middle east, you want a government which makes you safe

Angie says (8:48 AM):

in my district we elected a member of Quebec solidaire which is clearly a left-winged party and i saw A LOT of changes in the cleanness

Angie says (8:49 AM):

i had the chance to talk to Francine a couple of times and she is really back on earth, has integrity and her way to see the problems to come is really refreshing. not all left-winged parties are unrealistic.

Angie says (8:50 AM):

but you know, me, so The Untakens refuse to get labbelled...

W.'. says (8:51 AM):

haha well I wouldnt want to stop the glorious revolution

Angie says (8:54 AM):

you are not to ignore that it cannot go on and on and on. This economical context at the expens of the environment and peace... like i said in a forum during de FSQ. "It's all like the virus in the egg. Pasteur would turn in his grave."

Angie says (8:56 AM):

but it take more than a few line on msn to explain that philosophy

W.'. says (8:56 AM):

I think enviromental issues are important - but thats about it, I am all for economical development, as its the only thing shown to bring peace

Angie says (8:57 AM):

hahahaha!

Angie says (8:57 AM):

are you kidding!

Angie says (8:57 AM):

money is the main motivation to wars

W.'. says (8:57 AM):

inequality is the cause of war

W.'. says (8:57 AM):

not the factmoney exists

Angie says (8:57 AM):

it's not a couple of $ spent on security that will justify all this mess

Angie says (8:58 AM):

well as human nature is, money is a way to power, power brings inequalities

Angie says (8:58 AM):

it's nothing new

Angie says (8:59 AM):

this system will bring our own loss

Angie says (8:59 AM):

it's getting worse and worse...

Angie says (9:00 AM):

you know how we make vaccines right?

W.'. says (9:00 AM):

capitalism has many problems but it is by far the est system we have got so far

Angie says (9:01 AM):

they usually inject a virus in an egg and once the virus ate all the egg, it dies. then we inject it into a human body, so it has a purpose in the end. But can you tell me what use we will be once you've ruin everything?

Angie says (9:03 AM):

well it's not because it's you that i won't admit that i think this stand point is a little selfish...

Angie says (9:03 AM):

and do not tell me that it's not getting worse?

W.'. says (9:03 AM):

I think to put the whole world into one small box is too simple and too reductionist

Angie says (9:05 AM):

well it seems that this world have been put in a small box by a couple of big heads and the box hidden at the very bottom of a closet

Angie says (9:06 AM):

of course if i don't buy locally it's not gonna affect Senegal's economics

Angie says (9:06 AM):

this planet is small and we all affect each other

W.'. says (9:06 AM):

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3502572,00.html see this

Angie says (9:07 AM):

as it is the same shit

W.'. says (9:11 AM):

did you see the article

Angie says (9:11 AM):

On both sides nothing like that is justified. but this is human nature...is it too late to make a U-Turn?

W.'. says (9:11 AM):

we need to just build some walls

W.'. says (9:11 AM):

and let people get over their problems

Angie says (9:12 AM):

ok like in Berlin?

Angie says (9:12 AM):

yeah! in Berlin it fixed the problems huh?

W.'. says (9:12 AM):

that a wall dividing the same people

W.'. says (9:12 AM):

I mean a wall dividing different people

Angie says (9:13 AM):

i can't believe some came to that conslusion

W.'. says (9:13 AM):

?

Angie says (9:13 AM):

you mean build walls, phisical walls?

W.'. says (9:13 AM):

yep

W.'. says (9:14 AM):

as its the only thing which stops the killing

Angie says (9:14 AM):

shit!

Angie says (9:14 AM):

ok, let's not fix the problem at the source...

Angie says (9:14 AM):

let's just patch it

W.'. says (9:14 AM):

it is not possible

W.'. says (9:14 AM):

it is too idealistic

W.'. says (9:14 AM):

trust me

Angie says (9:16 AM):

well since those people wont get a proper life qulity as they are gonna lose the freedom in profit of the real propblems (what are directly proportional to the degree of injustice on this planet), and since capitalism put the world in the same box, let's just shoot them all! It's gonna fix the problem

Angie says (9:17 AM):

i can't believe you guys arte studying university doing researches on the problem and came up to that conclusion!

Angie says (9:17 AM):

it's outrageous!

Angie says (9:18 AM):

it's nothing personal don't get me wrong

Angie says (9:19 AM):

humanity never really evoluate in the end!

W.'. says (9:19 AM):

haha trust me people at univserity think like you

W.'. says (9:19 AM):

people who know what is going on think like me

Angie says (9:19 AM):

well it might become personal though

Angie says (9:20 AM):

jeez !

W.'. says (9:20 AM):

I am not being personal

W.'. says (9:20 AM):

but there is a difference in the ways people think

Angie says (9:20 AM):

well, not you, me

W.'. says (9:20 AM):

I would suggest take some time to live out here, for example, and then you know all you can do is build a wall

Angie says (9:21 AM):

i am not saying i dislike you, but i disaprove you stand point

Angie says (9:21 AM):

god!

W.'. says (9:21 AM):

if you had seem what I had seen, then I think you would agree with me

Angie says (9:21 AM):

no!

W.'. says (9:21 AM):

I know its hard to hear that

Angie says (9:21 AM):

you don't know me

Angie says (9:22 AM):

NEVERi would come to this type of conclusion!

W.'. says (9:22 AM):

when your life and the life of your friends/family depend on it you would

Angie says (9:22 AM):

no!

Angie says (9:22 AM):

I support freedom!

Angie says (9:23 AM):

let me think about the subject

Angie says (9:23 AM):

i will write a blog within the next couple of days on it

Angie says (9:23 AM):

dont worry i will keep everything anonymous

W.'. says (9:23 AM):

if you build a wall and people dont die, or you talk about lots of ideological nonsense and people die all around you - you

W.'. says (9:23 AM):

pick the first

Angie says (9:24 AM):

well then you need no more researches on the problem, you found the right solution.
W.'. says (9:25 AM):
pretty much

Angie says (9:25 AM):

all we need now is an architecte

W.'. says (9:25 AM):

once there is peace, as in no killing, then you can talk about the ideological issues

W.'. says (9:25 AM):

but not before

Angie says (9:25 AM):

humanity don't need you anymore

Angie says (9:25 AM):

W...

Angie says (9:26 AM):

peace as in burrying the problems, not fixing the problems

Angie says (9:26 AM):

see i don't think this conversation is useful

Angie says (9:27 AM):

well it was

W.'. says (9:27 AM):

its difficult

W.'. says (9:27 AM):

but it is complex

Angie says (9:27 AM):

but adding anything would be a waste of time

W.'. says (9:27 AM):

and its hard on MSN

Angie says (9:27 AM):

yeah!

Angie says (9:27 AM):

i mean

Angie says (9:27 AM):

it'snot obvious

Angie says (9:27 AM):

so let me think on the subject and i will write something about it

Angie says (9:27 AM):

it will be my first blog for the new campaign

Angie says (9:28 AM):

it's its very topic !

W.'. says (9:29 AM):

ok Ill read it

W.'. says (9:29 AM):

but remember I come from a very different perspective on all this

Angie says (9:29 AM):

how much do you hold to your stand point

W.'. says (9:29 AM):

and this is what I study my whole life

Angie says (9:30 AM):

isn't it ironic?! honneslty, Angélique Calypso has not only friends

Angie says (9:31 AM):

a couiple of people sent me anger messages after i spoke on internet forums

Angie says (9:31 AM):

I warn you, i can be a pain!

Angie says (9:31 AM):

but my goal is not to destroy people's reputation, but to find solutions and the truth

Angie says (9:33 AM):

and since i keep to my stand point regarding freedom, people around me are free to think whatever they like till it start to be harmful for others

Angie says (9:34 AM):

this is why i can stand sharing time with someone who think the opposite

Angie says (9:35 AM):

but there were people i condenm right away, and people who think it's random, don't get the point...
Angie says (9:35 AM):

not that i hate anybody

W.'. says (9:36 AM):

it sounds like there is a lot of things for you to express

Angie says (9:36 AM):

even the ones who are very cruel and idiotic

W.'. says (9:36 AM):

I understand why you express what you do

W.'. says (9:36 AM):

but my views have changed since then

Angie says (9:36 AM):

well it will still change W

Angie says (9:36 AM):

as you know it

Angie says (9:36 AM):

but you are still the guy i know, from what i see

Angie says (9:37 AM):

it's cool with me

W.'. says (9:38 AM):>>

I have a lot of experience and a lot of time on all this

Angie says (9:38 AM):

as long as you are not trying to kill me in my sleep! or add walls to my apartment!

Angie says (9:38 AM):

lol

W.'. says (9:38 AM):

my heart is in the right place, but also so is my head, and it is my head which guides me in all this

W.'. says (9:38 AM):

its a long time to discuss all this in person

W.'. says (9:38 AM):

haha

W.'. says (9:38 AM):

well maybe when I am montreal Ill build a small wall

W.'. says (9:38 AM):

around cot st luc or something




My point isn't to discredit my friend, nor is work, but to make people come to a reflection about the responsibilities of the majority face to some minorities rebelling, how they pretend knowing how to easily fix the problems they created themselves and their part of responsibility in the wealth of those minorities. It is such a western behaviour, the same happened here, and everywhere needed, with the Natives. And the Majorities and masses point of view and indulgence regarding terrorism.

I asked a friend of mine, who lives in Israel his opinion on W.'s solution.

"Putting up a wall is quite problematic. The Arab and Jewish populations aren't really split up geographically so there's no real line where you could put up a wall. It would require moving all the Jews to one side and all the Arabs to the other side.
Then there's the other problem of Arabs who are Israeli citizens. For the most part they prefer being Israeli citizens than Palestinian ones.
And finally, if you split the region into a Muslim nation and a Jewish nation, you're pretty much getting rid of any idea of democracy around here.
When Israel was founded, it was declared a Jewish Democracy. This s a very problematic definition for a country since there are many non-Jewish citizens. The direction should be creating a single democratic country that doesn't care at all about religion, race and what not. But I'm afraid that won't be possible while the religious and the extremists on both sides are holding the power in their hands..." -Asher

Do I need to say more? Ask German youth why building a wall was a reckless and inefficient solution.

It is much time that we stop coming to conclusions based upon races or history and pretend it is self-respect. The main motivations nowadays are money and pride (religion is the worse hypocrisy and pride feeder invented by men to have control on everything that first appear as weaker than them. Smaller people, women, small groups, you get the point. If you are an obese and can't stop eating, why not putting a lock on the fridge and keep the keys in your pocket? And why don't you just swallow the goddamn key? It is running out of your control anyway. All that instead of spreading chaos all around your little person, focus on controling yourself!)

I believe it is the responsibility of the majorities of this world to prove their real potential and find solutions at the source instead of wiping with the back of their hand, wash away the solvable, human lives like it is for them so easy to do when their it is all question of capitals. My friend might have good intents to protect Israel's people, but they aren't all on your side W. Who are really Israeli? I have doubts concerning the motivations of your superiors W. and you are still the one who will sustain their the consequence of their mistakes.

It is much time that we stop coming to conclusions based upon races or history and pretend it is self-respect. The main motivations nowadays are money and pride.

I only wish one day, that the few (the US of A, England, Canada) who interfere in Middle East business, as much as they pretend to know better, would actually know better.

Self-justification: you want democracy as you impose it (like it made pure sense anyway, as long as it serves your interests. It smells like self-defeating to me.)

Self-appointed, you desire power and money and the very top of the pyramid for you alone, self-evidently!

Self-aware, you prove, reduce, yourself (to) a simplistic greedy entity, that can't think deep enough to find appropriate ways to the situations when sometimes it's so self-explanatory, what would you win in giving in some of yours?

Don't be self-willed, "It's easy, just wipe away the problem." doesn't represent a long term self-sufficient solution, but only a short term self-denial of your self-abused impotence, cowardice, a proof that you are too self-conceited to admit the problem might come from you and your self-contradictory obsolete system. How can a machine be self-propelled when some parts of it are neglected?

I guess what we end now to solve political issues are mechanics, no architect of terrific walls with self-locking mind, self-pity and self-hypnosis, what is a countdown to a self-fulfilling prophecy self-inflicted: self-destruction.

More blogs to come on the topic.

Written by Angélique Calypso

2 comments:

O_o_ said...

Oh! Great interview angie!

Red-Horse said...

This comment rambles a bit. Too many thoughts at once.

*******

Evil and violent malice lie on BOTH sides of the conflict. They kill each other because they think god wants them to. All over a little strip of land.

I understand that in desperate situations it is easy to just want a quick fix to stop the pain but a wall will not stop humans from killing each other. Especially not humans that have become so arrogant and deluded that they believe they receive their marching orders from god.

Your friend has lost hope. An easy thing to lose in times like these. I do not agree with his solution but I can not blame him for it since I have not seen what he has seen.
*******
People fight wars over Ideals. The evil men at the top of the pyramid manipulate those Ideals for money and power. It is a tragedy that the people doing the killing are so blinded by religion that they cannot see the real enemy.
*******
War is some times necessary in a world where a few ruthless men at the top have the power to control us all. Men and women of ideals fight to secure THEIR freedom and STOP when the goal has been achieved. BUT...

A war over superstitious and unrealistic ideals like who has god's favor (which, at its core, is what we have here) is a foolish war that will never end until every human on the planet capable of shooting a gun is dead.

A war WITHOUT ideals is nothing more than killing for thrill and profit and, again, will never end until ALL involved are dead.

Those that rule feed the flames of the former so that they may create the latter to feed their own interests and entertainment.

Cut off the HEAD of the beast and the body dies.